but jonas it right, a lot of cities like detroit are heavily unionized. they invested heavily in these gold-plated cadillac-like government pensions as the revenues have dropped off and diminished and detroit is a great example, people leaving the city now for decades. they find they can't pay these pensions. so in a nutshell, they mismanaged their money and now they're coming-- i don't blame the council woman they did help to get president obama elected. look, we did you a solid and unfortunately it's not the right way to go, i don't think anyone wants to bail out detroit for mismanagement. >> brenda: julian, what say you. >> i think we have to define the terms, quid pro quo and bailout are unfortunate terms. i think that jonas made the right point. you have to separate long-term and short-term issues. long-term, the same way that the government reformed entitlement, the state has to reform pension programs. and many states and governments are doing that. in the short-term, however, it's another question when you're in an economically very difficult time